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[40k] Deathguard Tacitica
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Author:  nurglephill [ Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [40k] Deathguard Tacitica
hmm.
well, if you equip the chosen with power weapons instead of special weapons would it not be better to give 4 of them (inc champ) twin claws? its only 5 extra points per model for extra attacks and all those re-rolls....however they then become only 2 points less than a twin claw armoured terminator.
the upside to that is you can fit up to ten chosen in a raider and only 5 termies.

I do see your point about the lack of assaulting ability of the options i suggested. I used the Melta gun load out simply as an example of what the points would be, it could be that the best way to go is 2 flamers and 2 melta guns in a squad for example.
however, what if you had two Sqds of chosen in raiders, with two DP's following up behind them, using the raiders as mobile cover. then when the chosen jump out, shoot and assault the Dps join in and finish the job?
Author:  nurglephill [ Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [40k] Deathguard Tacitica
you know, i have lost count of the number of time i have read this now lol.

Anyway, ignoring my last post for a mo i have another pressing thought i would like to pick your (and anyone elses) brains on.

That is the biker squad and its options and the Lord/sorcerer on bike argument.

Lets say for arguments sake I want at least ten bikes in my force. would it be better to have 2 sqds of five OR one of ten? Is the possibility of having 4 special weapons and two fisty champs worth the two IoN? 2 squads of five with 2 melta and 2 flamer for example would come to 580pts but one squad of ten with 2 melta 440pts...

Also is the special weapon option worth taking considering you lose the extra CC weapon?

I guess the problem i am having is this. what role are they best suited for? I mean if I want them to hunt tanks then i guess 2 meltas and a fisty champ is ideal, BUT, wouldnt a raptor squad with melta weapons be better in this role?

So that leaves them with a general assaulting role and if a Lord/sorcerer is attached i guess they would be pretty damn good at it too. So would it be better to leave out the melta weapons altogether, or to replace them with flamers? If i go with a squad of bikes with 2 flamers is a sorcerer with Wind a great/better addition to this squad than a Lord?

If taking bikes mean you need to arrange your army around them i want to get it right! (unlike my mistakes when tooling up my termy lord and retinue!!)

The lord with Claws or PF is better in CC than a sorcerer, although a sorcerer does have the force weapon and can instant kill.....but then if i have used the wind of chaos i lose that ability. So he is the more rounded option, the Lord the more specific, CC only option. So, if i go for the lord should i have 2 sqds of five so i can have 2 more PF's.....then as i am spending all those points i might as well go all the way and get 4 assault weapons too...right?

Can you tell i am a little confused as to what direction to go in?

The compromise would be 6 bikers with a sorcerer on bike (7 total..) with IoN......? but then if i am gonna have bikes i need to be more focussed and really go for it. right?

ok i am going to stop now, thoughts, advice....HELP!!? :)

thanks

phill
Author:  nurglephill [ Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [40k] Deathguard Tacitica
well, i guess my last post may have fallen under the "will someone else work it out for me" heading, hence the lack of replies.... (am i right?)

anyway, i have spent more time (i am working stupid hours right now so i have time to sit and read in the quiet moments :P) thinking about this.

It seems to me that there are specialist units that can focus on doing one thing brilliantly, like chosen in a rhino with 4 melta guns killing tanks for example. But the more I look at it the less i think that is true of bikers. yes with T4(6) they are damn hard and yes if you put a lord in with them they will have a CC punch, but put a lord in ANYTHING and it gets a CC punch. Is putting a lord in with bikers the BEST way of getting the BEST out of a CC lord?

My thinking is moving from the specialist to the all round. Bikers are exactly like PM squads, they have bolters, they are tough as old boots but only have 2 specialist weapon slot. Although they lack FNP and are not fearless you have the advantage of being even tougher than a PM and FAST!

So they are a mobile squad of plague marines. how to equip them? As i have said there are better tank hunting options out there so that leave troops. with that in mind I am going to equip my bikes as follows

Sorcerer on bike, wind of chaos, Mon 180pts

Squad 288pts
1 biker champ IoN
power weapon (this way he still keeps his extra CC attack for having 2 CC weapons and all would count as the PW...)
5 bikers
2 flamers

total: 468pts

is my reasoning sound?

I will build 11 bikes in total 1 champ 1 hq and 9 bikers as i havent decided the best number to field etc and this way i have options.

thanks

phill
Author:  Mabrothrax [ Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [40k] Deathguard Tacitica
Well, bikes are like you said, fast plaguemarines.

They probably perform better in CC... they have I4 which means you rely slightly less on Toughness/Power armour/FNP to see you through, plus T6 significantly reduces the number of wounds coming back at you. If you roll badly with your attacks you're still likely to come out on top as your opponent fails to cause significant wounds to you.

They perform better in shooting - those bolters are twin-linked and relentless, so you can fire at maximum range regardless of moving, and assault afterwards. The same would go for an plasmaguns you give the squad.

They're faster, and making use of the turbo boost gives you added protection.

Are they more resilient? Probably about the same given the models are hrder to hide due to size.

So the obvious way to use Nurgle Bikers is much like any other unit of Plaguemarines in a transport, infact, with a supporting PM unit in a rhino, they might be the perfect 'flanking' strike force.

As for weapons, it's personal preference, but remember that they replace a weapon reducing your attacks.

Obviously, adding a Lord or Sorcerer increases the threat level.
Author:  nurglephill [ Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [40k] Deathguard Tacitica
thanks Mabs,
I thought long and hard about special weapon load out. As you say you lose an extra CC attack but your bikes are relentless etc so even a plasma gun can rapid fire and then you assault etc...which is a very tempting thing. But the problem i have had in the past with flamers is not being able to get the most out of them due to not being close enough for the template to cover the most amount of models. But on a bike you should be able to get the most out of them much more often simply because you can move much further on a bike. With the added power of a sorcerer on bike with wind, three templates and then assaulting should make up for the lose of CC attacks for taking a special weapon...i hope :)

And you flanking force idea is what i had in mind. i like the idea of using them like knights charging into the flank of the enemy :)

thanks as ever for your insight

phill
Author:  Cassarus [ Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [40k] Deathguard Tacitica
I think I will equip my bikes with 2 flamers, and a champ with power-fist and leave them at that, a squad of 5-7 bikers with mark of nurgle should be a real c&c threat even without a hq to support them.
Author:  Erysipelas Pemphigus [ Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [40k] Deathguard Tacitica
Thanks for the input. It opened my eyes to more options and ideas. :thumbsup: Now to make me some units
Author:  Rhodric [ Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [40k] Deathguard Tacitica
I've officially moved on from my massive Salamander army. I just couldn't stand the force any longer. I'm so glad I found these forum and Papa Nurgle!!! I've been loving my Death Guard force.

With my remaining Forge World Deathguard conversions I've decided to add a unit of 7 x Deathguard Bikers and one Deathguard Lord on Bike (can be a Sorcerer too). Not only will they be wicked models, but I think they are way underestimated. I can't wait to get them on the board.

The discussion here really helped me make this decision, thanks!
:)
Author:  ebolatheripe [ Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [40k] Deathguard Tacitica
Question guys,

I was reading the tactica on the first few pages, but they're from 2008. Has anything changed much in terms of tactics with all the new codex's out there (Nurgling Food, Canine Viking Twits, New Marine Dex, etc)? Is all that advice still just as applicable, or have you had to change tactics with the release of the new codex's?
Author:  Mabrothrax [ Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [40k] Deathguard Tacitica
Given that the tactica is more geared towards using and building Deathguard lists rather than how to beat I find you tittilating and mildly arousing army, you'll find it is still relevant (I hope).
Author:  nurglephill [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [40k] Deathguard Tacitica
It is still VERY relevant
Author:  Tariq_Jakobsen [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [40k] Deathguard Tacitica
I think that it's not only relevant, but full of good advice, and well written too! Keep up the good work, and let's hear about the few remaining units. I find these articles very inspiring.

Cheers!
Author:  Mabrothrax [ Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [40k] Deathguard Tacitica
Hmm, what's left?

Daemons I think, as people are discussing them, then maybe some ideas on 'synergy'.

:tophat:
Author:  ebolatheripe [ Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: [40k] Deathguard Tacitica
^Yes please.
Author:  nurglephill [ Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: [40k] Deathguard Tacitica
daemons yes :)
Synergy hell yes!
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